How come no developer's are using the full 100mb?

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How come no developer's are using the full 100mb?

(29 posts) (13 voices)

Started 2 years ago by O
Latest reply from onmode-ky

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O
Member

I ask because after playing Young Thor, and the fact that they did so much with 54mb (I think it was 54mb), I can only imagine what could be done with the full 100mb. With so many genres left to be covered, and the much needed variety minis greatly needs (I'm looking forward to Futurelabs new shooter, but other than that, I can't take any more shmups :/), I would imagine you guys could get alot done with 100mb. So if a developer could give some insight to this question, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

Posted 2 years ago #
JeremyR
Member

Well, I don't think they really need to. Heck, a lot of full priced and UMD games are that small (For instance, Adventures to Go! is only 42, Puzzle Quest is 65).

The only one that is at the limit (and then some, because of the manual) is Monsters Probably Stole my Money and that was because the cutscenes were pre-rendered...

Jack the Ripper and Mystery of the Crystal Portal were pretty big (85 and I think 95?) because they had a lot of 2-d art

Posted 2 years ago #
(Grip Games) Jakub Mikyska
Member

100MB is a limit, not a recommendation :-)
Most of the minis games are 2D and you really don't need that much space for 2D graphics, especially when it is a PSP game, as the device got relatively low display resolution.

Our upcoming game Blimp has a lot of gorgeous 2D backgrounds and comics-like briefing screens and will be somewhere around 45MB.

Unless you have pre-rendered animations, 100MB can house a 30hours RPG game without a sweat! :-)

Posted 2 years ago #
Aktion
Member

We had a BreakQuest 100Mb because of 33 music tracks used in original game and we cannot use mp3 there. Carnivores was 35Mb but because the game is full 3D. NormalTanks, full of 2D and only 9Mb because of generated everything.
Secret game #1 is 11Mb now and Secret Game 2 is 80mb for some reasons :D

Posted 2 years ago #
(Grip Games) Jakub Mikyska
Member

We may pack some extra junk data with our next game to make the final package larger and give the impression that there is a ton on content there ;-)

Actually I believe that the games should be as small as possible. Not everyone has a PSPgo with 15GB of storage space.

Posted 2 years ago #
O
Member

Thanks for the info guys. I have noticed some full PSP titles, with 3D graphics, that have small memory counts, like both Wipeouts and Steambot Chronicles, but I never really gave it much thought.

Posted 2 years ago #
Jasper Nikki
Moderator

Is their any JRPG turn based games for minis? I mean, why not?

Posted 2 years ago #
pspgamer01
Member

@ jasper
that would suck....

Posted 2 years ago #
Carson
Member

Thanks for the info guys. I have noticed some full PSP titles, with 3D graphics, that have small memory counts, like both Wipeouts and Steambot Chronicles, but I never really gave it much thought.

yeah, dont confuse filesize, with content. although the two correlate, they arent necessarily the same.
it really depends on how the game was coded, as Jeremy mentions, monsters probably stole my princess has a huge file size, yet the game itself is quite small (a skilled player could (probably) finish the whole thing (trophies and all) during a weekend), this is mostly because the cutscenes are video files, as opposed to actually being done in game, which wouldent have been too dificult seeing as how they mostly use the same sprites.

Is their any JRPG turn based games for minis? I mean, why not?

no, I think the upcoming steampirates has JRPG elements though.
I myself am a fan of them (long time fan of the final fantasy series), but I dont think a full fledged JRPG would be right for minis, minis are intended for short games with bitesized gameplay sessions. JRPG's are..... not typically short games with bitesized gameplay sessions. I dont oppose it (when done right), I just dont think the typical JRPG's would work well on the platform.

@ jasper
that would suck....

thats a good idea pspgamer! say that the moderators wish sucks :D what could go wrong.

no, seriously, you are entitled to your opinion. but, it is my opinion that your opinion is wrong :) JRPG's dont deserve some of the hate they get from some people, some people hear "JRPG" and just think "thats stupid", when the truth is that it is one of the most intelligent genres in videogames.

Posted 2 years ago #
Takao
Member

There aren't any JRPGs on the Minis platform simply by the virtue of who makes those games, Japan. Japan doesn't have a Minis program in the same way we do. Minis games are simply published as normal PSN-only games in Japan. That said, they could easily work within the Minis platform. Case in point, last year's Half Minute Hero (which inspired a spiritual sequel, before having a direct sequel announced this year).

With Japan, the niche or low budget stuff of interest still gets retail releases simply because the typical Japanese person isn't all that comfortable with the idea of digital distribution. This is why, for example, Cave's shoot 'em ups get retail releases there, and are DD only here. The same goes for SCEJ's PlayStation C.A.M.P. intiative, which is similar to Minis in that it encourages up and comming developers with an original idea to come forward and get a game developed. However, C.A.M.P. tends to only cater to the more far out ideas like Patchwork Heroes, and Tokyo Jungle. PH was DD only in North America, and Tokyo Jungle is set for DD only in Japan.

Posted 2 years ago #
Carson
Member

There aren't any JRPGs on the Minis platform simply by the virtue of who makes those games, Japan.

well, by 'JRPG's' I think it was the style of a JRPG that was meant, it could be made anywhere.

Posted 2 years ago #
Takao
Member

Well, honestly, can you name any JRPGs not developed in Japan? Bioware's stuff is really Western RPGs.

Posted 2 years ago #
Jasper Nikki
Moderator

Hmm, interesting. You're right guys, the minis program are meant to be bitesize. I was thinking of a serial, but then again, that would be expensive to buy.

Posted 2 years ago #
O
Member

"Japanese person isn't all that comfortable with the idea of digital distribution."

I'm very curious as to why that is, because Japananese consumers aren't the only ones, to have this issue. Why is it that, people go through hard drives of games from PSN and XBox Live, and even stack up on iOS titles, but damn near spazzed out at the idea of a UMDless PSP, or a discless console?

DLC, minis, even titles like Patchwork Heroes, PSone Classics, XBox Originals, are in high demand, but the idea of buying Peace Walker like titles from the PSP PSN, Or Halo type games from XBox Live, is just too much to bare for most people. Why is that? Why is that we have basically accepted digital distribution, but at the same time, try so hard to fight something we support everyday? I like my cases and manuals as much as the next guy, but isn't purchasing any type of digital media, a thumbs up that were ready for it to become the standard?

I know that's off subject, but I needed to ask. You guys always seem to have pretty well thought out responses, so I'm curious to hear your opinions on the subject.

Posted 2 years ago #
onmode-ky
Member

Well, honestly, can you name any JRPGs not developed in Japan?

The 1999 PC game Septerra Core was developed in the West but plays (and looks) very much like a JRPG. The visual style in particular seemed to have lots of influence from Nagano Mamoru's Five Star Stories manga serial, and it uses turn-based combat. I have not finished it yet, incidentally. . . .

On the subject of not needing to fill as much as 100 MB of game storage, yeah, size does not correspond to perceived content, gameplay, fun, etc. Consider that DariusBurst, which looks and sounds absolutely gorgeous, is a mere 61 MB download from the PS Store. Full textured 3D everything, 11 stages, lots of high-quality music, smooth-scrolling backgrounds (this part kind of confuses me, since they look so good I am inclined to say they must be prerendered video--but it's only 61 MB!). Then there's the fact that Atari 2600 games were typically 2, 4, or 8 KB (that's kilobytes, and the 8 KB ones were bank-switched since only 4 KB could be addressed at any given time), to say nothing of the fact that the system had 128 bytes of RAM. You can pack a lot of fun into a small space if you really try. I remember reading about some FPS out there (designed for a programming competition, I think) having a really small storage footprint thanks to procedural routines drawing a lot of the graphics. Also, take a look at http://www.java4k.com to see what 4 KB can get you these days.

We may pack some extra junk data with our next game to make the final package larger and give the impression that there is a ton on content there ;-)

I am reminded of the following lines from Windows 95's MSDOS.SYS file:

;The following lines are required for compatibility with other programs.
;Do not remove them (MSDOS.SYS needs to be >1024 bytes).

Those lines were followed by a bunch of lines of junk. I'm also reminded of a GameCube save file I have for a fighting game whose size is much larger than a save file for another GameCube fighting game that actually saves more stats data than the first game's save file. I looked at the larger file's contents with a hex editor once and found that the vaaaast majority of the 113 KB was null characters. What kind of crap API were they using for the save functionality?

Posted 2 years ago #
SiDCrAzY
Member

@Takao Well, honestly, can you name any JRPGs not developed in Japan? Bioware's stuff is really Western RPGs.

You might be thinking of only major devs, but remember that the Minis section attracts a lot of smaller independent developers.

In that case I can think of plenty "JRPG style" games on other platforms that were NOT made by Japanese developers.

Just from the iPhone I can think of a few, including one of my favorite RPGS "Across Age".

That's not including PC or Mobile JRPG's.

Posted 2 years ago #
JeremyR
Member

Actually, there are quite a number of games made with the RPG Maker program - they look and feel and play like JRPGs (since RPG Maker was made in Japan), but the games are made in the West. Casual game portals carry them.

Also ironic, basically the original WRPGs - Rogue-likes and dungeon crawlers (Wizardry and so forth) are still alive and doing well in Japan, but not in the West (except when they get brought over to the West, like Etrian Odyssey)

Posted 2 years ago #
Jasper Nikki
Moderator

That is why I wonder why the developers are not developing a JRPG style mini. I would also love recreated Chess games, or any other abstract board games with a new spin.

Posted 2 years ago #
volcane
Member

minis are intended for short games with bitesized gameplay sessions. JRPG's are..... not typically short games with bitesized gameplay sessions.

lol ;-)

Posted 2 years ago #
volcane
Member

Secret game #1 is 11Mb now and Secret Game 2 is 80mb for some reasons :D

@Aktion

Sounds intriguing! Can you tell us any more about the secret games?! :-)

Posted 2 years ago #
volcane
Member

Why is that we have basically accepted digital distribution, but at the same time, try so hard to fight something we support everyday?

@Ofaliss

It is curious isn't it?

I had my own moment of hypocrasy on the subject recently. I'm a regular listener of audiobooks and for years I've purchased physical audio CDs and then ripped these myself for listening from an MP3 player (and building up a DRM-free personal library of audiobooks in the process).

The trouble is that it's getting harder these days to buy audiobooks as physical audio CDs and so I'm frequently tempted to sign-up for a digital distribution service such as http://www.audible.com. However for some reason, I seem to be finding it hard to accept moving over to a DRM-based audiobook digital distribution service. I'm not sure why as I'm a technical chap and fairly open-minded. The strangest thing is that I regularly buy PC games using Steam and of course I'm a huge PSP PSN user (I have a PSPgo).

For me, at least in terms of audiobooks, I think it's just breaking the habit of many years (I bought my first SmartMedia-based MP3 player 11 years ago). I happily buy my video games & other software electronically and so I just now need to retrain my brain to be comfortable buying audiobooks the same way.

Posted 2 years ago #
M
Member

To get back to the original topic of why developers are not using the full 100 Mo limit...

We are indeed using it. Young Thor's final build that we sent to Sony was a little over 99Mo. It's just that there is further compression done by Sony during the final packaging for the PlayStation Store.

Believe me you simply cannot pack more content than there is in Young Thor and Zombie Tycoon.

M.

Posted 2 years ago #
onmode-ky
Member

Secret game #1 is 11Mb now and Secret Game 2 is 80mb for some reasons :D

@Aktion

Sounds intriguing! Can you tell us any more about the secret games?! :-)

I suspect the games Aktion is talking about are the Enigmo and Jane's Hotel mentioned in the blog. Confirm/deny, Aktion?

By the way, whenever I look at that name, I think "Aktiengesellschaft." :P

Posted 2 years ago #
DarthDanMan
Member

@M
Are you the first person from frima to go on this site?
p.s. Why the M?

Posted 2 years ago #
pspgamer01
Member

@ grip games

I just saw some gameplay footage of blimp. From what I saw you just fly from point to point to pick up people and drop people. And sometimes shoot. Is that it?

Posted 2 years ago #
(Grip Games) Jakub Mikyska
Member

@ pspgamer01

If you put it that way, then Young Thor is just walking left and right and smashing enemies and Coconut Dodge is moving your crab to avoid falling coconuts. And that's just it :-) But we all know it isn't.

Blimp is most importantly about the very specific flight controls of the blimp, as you control the amount of hot air and pitch, so things like gravity and momentum play a huge role in the gameplay. Blimp is about navigating levels and avoiding obstacles, just like in any other platformer.
Playing it is like nothing else you have seen before. That's why we picked this game. Because it is not just another title but a very unique and beautiful game.

Posted 2 years ago #
pspgamer01
Member

@ grip games
hmmmm...well if it's 2.99 EUR I buy it for sure! ;)

Posted 2 years ago #
(Grip Games) Jakub Mikyska
Member

@ pspgamer01

Deal! :-)

Posted 2 years ago #
onmode-ky
Member

you just fly from point to point to pick up people and drop people. And sometimes shoot.

Defender and Choplifter say hi. Well, not the dropping people part. You don't want to do that in real life, either.

Posted 2 years ago #

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