Aspiring to be a future Dev

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Aspiring to be a future Dev

(22 posts) (7 voices)

Started 2 years ago by UnknownToaster
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UnknownToaster
Member

Hello,

I am a kid hoping to get into the developement business. After highschool, I will be attending DeVry University to get a degree in game and simulation programming with C++.
In the mean time, I'd like to get a head start. I have been learning C with the OSlib library. I have a few questions:

1. What is the right language?
Theres always been the C vs C++ wars.
C is old.
C++ has been said to be harder to make a game with.
Java is..yeah.

I'm learning C but I think I should go with C++ because thats what the industry is using. What do you guys think?

2. Is the PSP right for me?

I want to make games with more open worlds. Rolling hills. Fields of grass and plants. Towns with life. People walking around. Cars driving. Complex AI. Something like a less violent GTA 4 and San Andreas mixed together. What CAN the PSP handle? What about the PSP would let me accomplish this without major limitations? Should I use something else?

3. If I were to use the PSP, what engine would I use?

I do not know of many engines that support PSP. Unity is trying to get PSP support regardless that I hate Unity. LTE has bad framerate. LTE lite mod fixes that but its barely LTE anymore and doesn't have much documentation/support. Would I have to make my own engine? Or are there nice engines available? I need to have a great engine I know I can use because I can not affored to buy a liscense for every engine. Being that I'll be a sophomore next year you'd assume I'm not loaded with cash.

Please try to answer my questions as best as you can. I would appreciate advice on how to succeed in becoming a successful programmer and continue my learning.

Thanks,
Dan

Posted 2 years ago #
somedude2008
Member

2. Is the PSP right for me?
I want to make games with more open worlds. Rolling hills. Fields of grass and plants. Towns with life. People walking around. Cars driving. Complex AI. Something like a less violent GTA 4 and San Andreas mixed together. What CAN the PSP handle? What about the PSP would let me accomplish this without major limitations? Should I use something else?

If your looking to make a Mini (Game under 100mb) then I don't think you would be able to pull off a open world game like Just Cause 2 or GTA, In order to do something like that you would have to get hired by a bigger company, so you should make smaller games first that you can afford to put out on your own or with a few accomplices. The psp is very graphically capable, just look at this screen shot from the upcoming game Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker:

I'm sorry I can't help you with any of your other questions, but I think the PSP would be a great platform to start with (In Minis) and also the iPod touch.

Posted 2 years ago #
UnknownToaster
Member

If your looking to make a Mini (Game under 100mb) then I don't think you would be able to pull off a open world game like Just Cause 2 or GTA, In order to do something like that you would have to get hired by a bigger company, so you should make smaller games first that you can afford to put out on your own or with a few accomplices. The psp is very graphically capable, just look at this screen shot from the upcoming game Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker (Image deleted for space)

It doesn't exactly need to be a mini. I figured people making minis must have some experience in developement and can help. I am more interested in all out indie games. Just Cause has a complexity I am uninterested in. It has open world levels but my complexity is different. And yes, no one has used the full potential of the PSP. Companies are just tapping into it with Assassins Creed and MGS. I have talked to plenty of developers and I felt I should make a thread in a seemingly good community of people with experience instead of getting mixed messages from people with completely different ideas. This way I can get many sides at once so I can figure it all out.

Posted 2 years ago #
(Grip Games) Jakub Mikyska
Member

Hello,

1) C++ is definitely THE programming language to go with.

2) First of all, starting with an open-world game is going to kill all your efforts. Start small, learn the basics. Then you will be able to progress to more complex world and so on. Open world games are simply the most complex gaming projects in the industry and an army of developers is needed. Look at GTA IV, it cost 100 million dollars to make.

But to answer your question, no PSP is not a very good platform for an open world game. It is possible, but something with more memory is much better.

3) All of the recent open world games had specific engines built right for them - GTA, AC, inFamous, Maffia, ... If you want to make fields of grass and living cities, there's hardy an affordable engine that can handle that. You would probably have to create your own. Which is one extra argument to start small.

Posted 2 years ago #
UnknownToaster
Member

1) C++ is definitely THE programming language to go with.

Settled. :)

2) First of all, starting with an open-world game is going to kill all your efforts. Start small, learn the basics. Then you will be able to progress to more complex world and so on. Open world games are simply the most complex gaming projects in the industry and an army of developers is needed. Look at GTA IV, it cost 100 million dollars to make.

Oh hell naw. I didn't mean I'd like to start off with that. You need to walk before you run. It's just the goal I'd like to reach, one I am really interested in. What if it was cut into smaller sections and the drawing was low. Or a system in which every polygon that can't be seen isn't rendered. (The front of the building is rendered while the back isn't because you can not see it) How much would that help the chances?

3) All of the recent open world games had specific engines built right for them - GTA, AC, inFamous, Maffia, ... If you want to make fields of grass and living cities, there's hardy an affordable engine that can handle that. You would probably have to create your own. Which is one extra argument to start small.

I thought so. Yeah I wouldn't expect to imitate a real company quality engine without a lot of experience. What I imagine is more of a mix of an RPG and an adventure game. Kind of like SG57's The World and Flower (The PS3 game.) It doesn't have to be GTA 4. It doesn't have to be gigantic maps all loaded at once. But I'm sure theres good ways to be able to load sections. Kind of like GTA 3, VCS, and LCS except maybe better than that in which your not at a loading screen for 45 seconds.

Posted 2 years ago #
Carson
Member

like you, im also a wanabe programmer (i tried to tackle c# to start, but felt a little in over my head (im kind of an idiot, so that mightve contributed to that), so now im trying an introductory language, id recommend you do the same), so i guess i cant help much.
but i know enough on the subject to know that what you want to do, requires years of experience, excellent math skills (among other things), thousands of dollars, and years of hard work and dedication (and i hate to brake it to you, but by the time your done that, your not gonna get any sales for a psp game), at the very least. you probably could achieve what you want easier via modding existing games, or using a top down view, though.
if you dont want to do those, then im pretty sure youre out of luck, (except maybe the lead programmer) programmers dont contribute to enough aspects of game design to decide if the game should be part rpg or not (its really the publisher who makes that call), from what i understand.

i must ask this, what programming/scripting experience do you have? imo every bit helps, before i considered programming, i played around with things like flash, and game maker, they helped me get a sense of how to use algorithms for game design.

Posted 2 years ago #
UnknownToaster
Member

Over your head? How far did you get till you called it quits?
Mm..I tried Lua for 3 days if that counts. :)
Experience: I'm working on that one! :)
Math skills: I'm not bad at math but as a Freshman in highschool you can go ahead and assume I don't know much about Calculus and Trig yet.
Thousands of dollars: Workin' on it. :)
Dedication: I am serious when I say I want to be a programmer and I have been trying to expand my learning any chance I get which is pretty much the main reason I made this thread anyways.
Sales: As I said before, I wish to make indie games and assorted homebrew. I came here assuming that people would have experience on the matter. Theres making things to sell them then theres making things for the experience and fun. With that experience, I can eventually make a career out of it, I do not wish to jump right into a career.
Modding existing games: Most games have no documentation and I don't really see me cracking into all the special file formats the company makes specifically for that game. If anything I would make a game with the Source engine.
As for experience: I've had a keen interest in programming and a few years ago I'd play games wondering how they made this work and that and imagine ways to accomplish them and then I'd think of better ways. Now I am learning C. I have been making pong and am trying to maximize what I can learn from it. After that, I wish to go for a bigger project, then another, and another, until I have learned enough to support myself. So I do not have much, but as I said before, this thread is to get me on the right track to becoming a developer, not develop minis right now. I also like to read source codes and see how other developers decided to go about doing things and see how they work.

Posted 2 years ago #
Carson
Member

Over your head? How far did you get till you called it quits?

well, i bought a huge book, for xna ("XNA 3.0: learn programming now!" by rob miles), read a couple chapters, then went back to make the programs, made the first moodlight program (just plays around with various colors), and for some reason, i just had too much difficulty getting keyboard input for the next one, it just wouldent recognize whatever key i typed in, then i realized, i didnt know enough about it to figure out why it didnt, and havent tried it again since, instead i started to move to a language called "Turning" designed for beginners.

pong on c? well thats farther than i got on c# :) congratulations, youre better than me at the very least.
best of luck to you then, i hope my future games wont beat yours too badly! jk :P

Posted 2 years ago #
(Grip Games) Jakub Mikyska
Member

Dedication is the only way to achieve difficult goals. If you want to be a game programmer, do it and do not listen to what other people say. If you endure, a time will come when you will laugh back at such people.

One more question for you though - you said you wanted to create specific games with specific features... Programmer's work is often very distant from what the final game is. Being a programmer working on an open-world game does not mean you will get in contact with all the features, it means you will be working on a small, specific part of the game. Maybe a part of an AI, or a font tool... Try also thinking about becoming a game designer. That's where "I want to make an open world game" usually comes from.

Posted 2 years ago #
UnknownToaster
Member

Prince, heres a little tip that I always remind myself to do. Whenever I'm stuck with something, I always just kinda get sick of it and never wanna touch it again, but I always remind myself that and sit down, work hard, and get some stuff done. Once I get past it, the whole not wanting to continue fades away and it actually gives you an incentive to keep working. You should go back to it and try to figure out whats wrong. If you can figure it out, I bet you won't make that mistake again. If you truly can't find it, go ahead and talk to a programmer and see if they can't help. Theres probably a stupid error, did you check the line any everything?

Zack, yes, dedication is extremely important. No one has really doubted me, rather tried to get me to learn something else. No don't learn C, learn Flash its easier. Don't learn Flash, Learn Lua! Don't learn Lua, C is more powerful. Don't learn C, its old, learn C++. Don't learn C++, QC is easier. And so on. Its kinda ridiculous and is a part of why I asked the first question. I needed to be sure C++ was the right choice.

Yes, that is true. I kinda wanted to be multitalented. The more you can do the better chance of getting a job, right? Well I wanted to learn a language and do 3D modeling. With those skills I can make solo projects on my own. I still have lots o' time before I am heading off to get a job. I have always been interested in AI and Physics. But you are right, I have wanted to design games since I was in 2nd grade. I kept a notebook around with random sketches and notes on games I wanted to make. I considered game designer before, and really I'd say its perfect for me. I'm still going to learn to program and model and all that junk though. If I'm going to use PSP, I'm going to use LTE lite. If PC, Source or custom. Funny thing is, I'm already leading a project on PSP though. Thanks.

Posted 2 years ago #
igotmy9milli
Member

PSP isn't the easiest platform to develop on that's for sure! :P

Posted 2 years ago #
Carson
Member

Prince, heres a little tip that I always remind myself to do. Whenever I'm stuck with something, I always just kinda get sick of it and never wanna touch it again, but I always remind myself that and sit down, work hard, and get some stuff done. Once I get past it, the whole not wanting to continue fades away and it actually gives you an incentive to keep working. You should go back to it and try to figure out whats wrong. If you can figure it out, I bet you won't make that mistake again. If you truly can't find it, go ahead and talk to a programmer and see if they can't help. Theres probably a stupid error, did you check the line any everything?

yep, i do that too, i just had no idea of what the problem was, im not giving up on it, im going to go back on it when im ready, once i know enough to grasp what im doing, then ill, move back to c# and ask how to fix it

Posted 2 years ago #
UnknownToaster
Member

PSP isn't the easiest platform to develop on that's for sure! :P

Been told that before but I like it. Get to make games and take them around with you whenever. Can't really tie the desktop to my back whereever I go because it will destroy any last strength my back has.

yep, i do that too, i just had no idea of what the problem was, im not giving up on it, im going to go back on it when im ready, once i know enough to grasp what im doing, then ill, move back to c# and ask how to fix it

Bug fixing can be annoying as hell. Just narrow it down to the line check for simple typographical errors (ball.x=3 instead of ball.X = 3;) Then if its not that, check for what the line is calling and check if theres a problem with that that renders the line to fail.

Posted 2 years ago #
volcane
Member

@UnknownToaster

Did you see the interview on this site with James Marsden from the FuturLab folks on how to become a licensed PSP Mini developer? It was an interesting read.

Here is the direct URL in case you missed it: Interview with FuturLab

Posted 2 years ago #
UnknownToaster
Member

Actually I did. And yes, it was quite interesting but I wasn't so sure it all completely applied to me. I'd rather impress people with my work, not with what I say I'm going to work on. Getting all the hype up before you even know its all going to work out just sounds kinda stupid. Its like telling everyone, HEY! I have this awesome book idea. And then going off and exciting everyone about and then like, yeah I don't feel like doing this story anymore. Sorry fellas?

I'd rather work on things alone to start up something and get better to put in a portfolio before I'm licensed by somebody. He said to have a good idea and a professional attitude while I'd rather have a good and professional background. Then again say I wanted to make a mini I would have to have a good idea but really you'd think you would have that idea before you decided you wanted to make a mini.

Posted 2 years ago #
Carson
Member

now thats alittle unfair to the people at futurlab,
they knew what they were doing, they had a nice variety of flash games, and even a flash demo of coconut dodge.
in fact, what you said you'd like to do is exactly what he did.

I'd rather work on things alone to start up something and get better to put in a portfolio before I'm licensed by somebody.

he worked hard on flash for years before he attempted this game.

imo, what he's saying is, if you think you have a good idea, then work hard on it, show people you can do it, and that it is a good idea, and make it happen, which is exactly what you want.

Posted 2 years ago #
James @ FuturLab
Member

Getting all the hype up before you even know its all going to work out just sounds kinda stupid. Its like telling everyone, HEY! I have this awesome book idea. And then going off and exciting everyone about and then like, yeah I don't feel like doing this story anymore. Sorry fellas?

Firstly, and just to address this directly, I can empathise with this way of thinking - I've always been the type to stick to my word, and can't stand the idea of being one of those people that says they're going to do something, and then not do it.

However, the reality of the industry is that if you want to work on something very ambitious, which we did, it's simply not possible to do it alone, and unless you have a lot of money yourself, you need a publisher to believe in what you're doing. Even if you want to work on something small and publish it yourself, you need other people to work with you, and so you have to sell them on your idea too.

Having the skills to pitch an idea is therefore essential, whether you're an indie developer, or publisher funded. Those ideas will not always become reality, as you'll grow and develop and have new ideas.

Secondly, what I was trying to get across in the interview, is that people, unless they are gifted with entrepreneurship, will spend years 'building their portfolio' piece by piece, moving ever-so-slowly up the ladder, and never really take a risk on themselves.

Yes, I worked for a good few years in Flash before I pitched to Sony, but I didn't necessarily need to. What Sony are interested in most is ideas. So, I could have just built one demo, and taken that to them. They never asked to see our other work, because the idea we showed them was innovative, and because we had a demo that was well polished, they saw proof in the pudding that we were technically capable.
By the way, I haven't given up on wanting to make the game we pitched to Sony - we are building up to it ;)

Posted 2 years ago #
James @ FuturLab
Member

I should also say that my use of quote marks around 'building a portfolio' wasn't a direct reference to what you'd written UnknownToaster.

Rather I am surrounded by people who are both friends and professional peers who will never try to reach beyond what they have already accomplished in their portfolio.

Guess what happens, they go round and round in circles, moving very slowly up the chain (if ever).

What I am trying to encourage people to do instead, is believe in their ideas, because those are the most important commodity in the games industry. Trust in your idea and reach higher and higher every time. That way you'll reach your dream, whilst everyone else gives up on their dream whilst fussing over what they DON'T have in their portfolio.

In short, focus on what you DO have, and tell people about it, and don't become one of the people who focuses on what they DON'T have, and never move anywhere.

Having read your previous posts, I get the impression you are well on your way already. Keep it up!

Posted 2 years ago #
UnknownToaster
Member

Prince, I guess I kinda forgot most of it. I read it the first time but I skimmed it last time and I kinda missed a lot of details. I forgot about the whole Flash part, but my main thought as I was writing that was the whole no experience with C which might have been an issue if your going to make it in C. With the whole not having experience in it in mind.

Thanks, Futurlab, but your posts confused me a little. It seems you put a little mixed message in there.

Rather I am surrounded by people who are both friends and professional peers who will never try to reach beyond what they have already accomplished in their portfolio.

You said they're not trying to do bigger projects and go with their ideas.

In short, focus on what you DO have, and tell people about it, and don't become one of the people who focuses on what they DON'T have, and never move anywhere.

Then you say focus on what you already have. What I don't have being my ideas.
Unless you mean I have my ideas and work on them instead of obsessing that you want to do them and not which doesn't seem to make much more sense.
Besides those conflicting lines I pretty much agreed with what you said and couldn't find much to respond to.

Posted 2 years ago #
Carson
Member

You said they're not trying to do bigger projects and go with their ideas.

Then you say focus on what you already have.

I don't think its too contradictory, as he explains how the two thoughts connect.
what I think he's saying, is people tend to pay attention to building their skills/portfolio and never get much else done.
what he means by "don't focus on what you don't have", is, don't waste all your time trying to build skills you don't have, don't base everything you do on whats in your portfolio, just build the skills as you go along making your idea come to life, at least that's my interpretation of it.

What I don't have being my ideas.

actually, if anything, that's the one thing you do and always will have, and that's what he is encouraging you to use the most.

Posted 2 years ago #
Carson
Member

also, going with your writer analogy

Its like telling everyone, HEY! I have this awesome book idea. And then going off and exciting everyone about and then like, yeah I don't feel like doing this story anymore. Sorry fellas?

its a lot better to tell everyone you're idea first, and get their support and encouragement so you know its a good idea, than it is to spend years and years studying English, and expanding your vocabulary first, then realizing you don't have an idea for a novel imo.

Posted 2 years ago #
UnknownToaster
Member

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Work on my ideas and everything I don't know how to do I should try to find out and apply it to my project. Which is good since I kinda already started doing that. I started making a simple little plane game and I can make the world under it. :)

Posted 2 years ago #

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